Episode 441 — The Psychology Behind Difficult Conversations with Sheila Heen
The most dangerous conversations aren’t the ones we have. They’re the ones we keep avoiding.
In this encore episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Sheila Heen, Harvard Law professor, co-founder of Triad Consulting, and bestselling co-author of Difficult Conversations and Thanks for the Feedback. With over 30 years at the Harvard Negotiation Project, Sheila has spent her career studying why conversations go sideways and what it actually takes to have them well. In this conversation, Michael and Sheila unpack the hidden structure of every difficult conversation, explore why feedback triggers our deepest identity fears, and reveal how the most effective leaders learn to hear what others can’t bring themselves to say.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
- The three hidden layers in every difficult conversation
- How to use the “third story” approach to enter hard conversations without putting people on the defensive
- What separates leaders who invite honest feedback from those who build blind spots over time
If you want to lead at the highest level, you have to be willing to have the conversations everyone else is avoiding.
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Show Notes:
The story we tell about who we are sits at the heart of every difficult conversation. “Often, if a conversation feels difficult, it’s because something around identity has gotten hooked, and that generates bigger feelings and anxiety than normal. And then that colors the story we’re telling about what happened.”
Starting from your own story is a trap, and there’s a better way in. “If I start the conversation from my own story… you’ll catch on pretty quick that in this little play I’m inviting you to join, I am the hero, and you are the villain. That’s not a play that you particularly want to be cast in.”
The people in the back seat often see what the driver can’t. “Whether we’re driving or we’re leading, we all have blind spots. We actually need other people in order to see ourselves clearly, and in order to see the whole picture together.”
Being open to coaching gets harder and more important the higher you rise. “As you get more senior, you need better skills to invite candid coaching because fewer people are willing to take the risk to offer it to you.”
Connect with Michael
- Text directly at 404-531-7691
